Pfizer : Goldman Sachs 45th Annual Global Healthcare Conference Transcript

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EDITED TRANSCRIPT

PFE.N - Pfizer Inc at Goldman Sachs Global Healthcare Conference

EVENT DATE/TIME: JUNE 10, 2024 / 3:20PM GMT

OVERVIEW:

Company Summary

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JUNE 10, 2024 / 3:20PM, PFE.N - Pfizer Inc at Goldman Sachs Global Healthcare Conference

C O R P O R A T E P A R T I C I P A N T S

Albert Bourla Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

C O N F E R E N C E C A L L P A R T I C I P A N T S

Chris Shibutani The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

P R E S E N T A T I O N

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

Let's kick off our discussion with Pfizer here. My name is Chris Shibutani. I'm a member of the Goldman Sachs Healthcare Research team. Thank you so much to everybody here for joining us for this conference and for this discussion.

Super pleased to have Albert Bourla, CEO of Pfizer, to join us here and sit down, have a conversation, extremely timely, so many things to cover. I think your team had wanted you to be able to just sort of kick off with a couple of opening comments maybe to contextualize our discussion and we'll go from there.

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

Yes, of course. Thank you very much for being here, everyone. 2023 was a difficult year for us when it comes to stock performance. We were very disappointed to see that happening. We tried to understand the reasons and tried to make sure that we had a plan to bring it back. And then we announced our plan earlier in the year in '24, and it was based on five points.

The first point was we need to make sure that we integrate Seagen in a way that we develop Oncology leaders. I think that is going very well. We presented our first-quarter results that showed that not only the Seagen and Oncology business in general didn't go down, which is the expectations in the first six months of every merger, because people are changing brands and people are changing customers and bosses and all of that.

Actually, we had a growth, which was very impressive. And then in ASCO, we had significant presence of the pipeline, which is the second priority that we have to make sure that our pipeline continues to evolve. Oncology is a very big part of it, but not only. We have right now a lot of readouts that we expect by the end of the year.

The third priority was to make sure that all these new launches that we have done will perform well that will maximize the performance of the new launches. We did an unprecedented number of new product introductions in basically last year. And we're not that happy with the way that all of them went commercially. So we took some measures in the commercial operations to make sure that that will work well, and that's a priority for us.

Capital allocation is a very clear priority. Dividend, we said multiple times, is a sacred cow, so this is number one. Second, of course, delevering or balance it and paying out debt, and of course increase EBITDA to delever. You can do -- you need to do both to be able to delever. And then, of course, investing in the business and buybacks.

And those were the fundamental things that we said that we are going to do. And we are -- I think the Q1 was quite good. We had a good progress towards all of them. And I'm looking forward to present to this discussion to start with and then to present our results in the second quarter at the end of July -- I think beginning of August.

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JUNE 10, 2024 / 3:20PM, PFE.N - Pfizer Inc at Goldman Sachs Global Healthcare Conference

Q U E S T I O N S A N D A N S W E R S

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

Okay, terrific. I think that really captures a lot of the key points that we'll try and get across in the next half hour here. A lot of structural change signals an adaptation of your strategy to the difficulties that you had in 2023. I do want to bring up, because we're in front of a Wall Street audience, that there was a point person who was brought in recently.

Many of us know Andrew. I was a client myself 10 years ago. Andrew's probably on the live webcast. How's it going, Andrew? Talk about the appointment of his position within the company. And I think from a timeline standpoint, actually, you made some decisions about structure, oncology, US and international.

So to a certain extent, he's coming in midstream as we're ramping towards executing on this new strategy. But what's that going to be like to have a whisperer like him with you and how do you think about that?

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

Talking about Andrew, I think it's extremely important for me to have him be my thought partner and the thought partner of the leadership team of Pfizer. He is someone that is uniquely qualified to do the job that Aamir Malik was doing before, which is a drop of strategy; business development; capital prioritization on pipeline, which products are getting funded and not; the overall strategy of the company.

So he has a medical background, and he has a very good financial background. So he combines those two. He is extremely well respected from all investors because he's very thoughtful, and this is what I appreciated on him.

He was not the most positive on Pfizer, as we all know, but I think that, first of all, a demonstration that we are not looking to bring a yes man. We are looking to bring someone that can bring fresh ideas to our business. And that's what he's supposed to do. And also, of course, you should ask him yourself. But if he accepted to come, most probably, he saw something that works connecting his name with.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

Excellent. And I think it would be very constructive to have someone who always has a little bit of a critical tone to a certain extent. How should we measure his performance? I just think about when Aamir joined, he was very quick to come out and say, we're going to put through capital deployment, M&A, $25 billion in revenues in the year 2030 based upon all the deals we're going to do between now. Mark my words. Watch me go. And he did accomplish a very significant amount.

What's the right cadence to think about the impact of this? Because I think you reset a lot of the pillars of the business. You have some folks in place who are relatively newer in their roles. What's the right way to measure? Because I get the sense that investors are a little bit in sort of watchful waiting, not wanting to give you too much of the benefit of the doubt mode at these levels.

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

The Pfizer that Aamir found when he came is a very different Pfizer, right? Way much bigger. I remind you that in the pharma division, which is the one that we have, we had $37 billion of sales in 2019. Now it's $60 billion of sales, so it's way bigger, right? We have just completed significant acquisitions of these $25 billion revenues. But they are all there, and they are all about to be executed.

But that also found Pfizer in an inflection point of going very, very high in terms of reputation, revenues, stock price through the COVID period; and then when COVID subsided, losing significant part of that. So we are trying to find our next wave of impressing the investors.

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JUNE 10, 2024 / 3:20PM, PFE.N - Pfizer Inc at Goldman Sachs Global Healthcare Conference

So how we're going to measure his success, I think all the success of all of us will be measured on the stock price. And frankly, the things that Andrew is doing are things that are influencing significantly the stock price, because pipeline in a pharma is the most important driver of stock valuation. And this role really significantly controls which projects we are investing and which we are not investing.

Andrew is going to be the Chairman as part of his job of the total -- of the most senior governance body that makes the decisions of these capital allocations. Business development is an extremely important thing. Commercial development is an extremely important thing. So stock price, I think, eventually is what we need to be looking for all of us.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

Focusing on now sort of the center of gravity for the company, Oncology is really put to the forefront. Interestingly, you structured it. Oncology is the therapeutic area for that business. Then you have US and then International, so Oncology really getting highlighted here. We're coming off of the ASCO meeting.

Maybe highlight for us what you think is going to be something that we can really spend our time focusing on. Clearly, the Seagen legacy was across antibody drug conjugates. We have PADCEV as a notable success from recent late-stage data. But in particular, what's the right measuring stick for progress with this Oncology business coming out of ASCO for you guys?

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

The way that Oncology stood out in the way that you organize the business is because you organize the business to make sure that Oncology will be -- will get the best chances to be successful. The acquisition of Seagen was the largest acquisition of the last decade for Pfizer. And it is not only the amount of money that we are investing on that but it's more important, I believe, that it has the potential to become the most successful acquisition that the company has ever done.

The acquisition of Seagen was a bet on a technology, which is ADC, and on a company, which is Seagen. Both of them, since we made the decision, have made significant strides to believe that these were the right decisions. The ADC has become, after we announced it, the hottest M&A commodity right now.

Everybody is trying to find an ADC, but no one can find something that we found with Seagen, which is a whole platform of four products already in the market at early stages of their launch. So they have a lot of potential going up, plus 13 late stages, let's say, development programs, plus a significant amount of pipeline, plus an infrastructure of people.

So they present it following a [inaudible] acquisition, tells us that probably we make the right (technical difficulty) a big company acquiring a small company like Seagen (technical difficulty) biotech, the most common (technical difficulty) It is that you take the company, and you castrate it. You cut the innovation, you bring it into your bureaucracy, and that can reduce dramatically our value.

So the entire effort from the day we announced was to make sure that that would not happen. That's why we created an integration team from the two companies. I selected the person that I felt not only has -- the scientific depth and range to do a job like that but is also a good manager, someone that people will follow, somebody who we'll like, and someone who makes decisions based on meritocracy, not based on legacy.

Most of Seagen people told me, I want him. So that's why we did all of this work. The integration was completed extremely successfully, and then Boshoff took over the entire thing to lead. And the first months are very, very, very impressive. So I'm very optimistic about the future of this acquisition.

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JUNE 10, 2024 / 3:20PM, PFE.N - Pfizer Inc at Goldman Sachs Global Healthcare Conference

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

Yes, and you're referring, obviously, to Chris Boshoff here. And it's interesting because his responsibilities are both sort of guiding the ultimate portfolio of the pipeline as well as on the commercialization side. And I listened at ASCO. He participated in a conversation where there was this question about whether he has to talk himself into certain things.

And so when you think about oncology, where do you think the higher priority is? Is it on pipeline and on the [com], which I get kind of a sense for if I think back to the end of February when you did your Oncology Day. A lot of folks were paying attention to the entire scope of the presentation. And there was a fair balance of Phase 2 as opposed to talking about the commercial product.

So with Chris having to wear both of these hats and kind of debate within himself, where would you say we should focus? Is it more on the pipeline? Is it on the commercial side where you have a pretty clear footprint? Just a sense for what makes sense.

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

You can't differentiate. You need to focus on both. You need to make sure that your current inline products are performing very well, and you need to make sure that you have a pipeline that will come.

Oncology, the commercial part of oncology, is very different than the commercial part of vaccines or primary care or even specialty. It is extremely, extremely data driven. The sale of oncology, the selection of a brand compared to another, has nothing to do in oncology with the brand equity or if your ad was good on the news, which affects (technical difficulty) communicate data in a way that compelled. But yes, that's the solution.

So from that aspect, I don't think for anyone that has this -- lives in oncology for many years, it's very difficult for him to pick up some of the nuances of payers and some of the nuances of rebates. But he is focusing on -- I have seen him being more better in commercial (technical difficulty) many commercial leaders in the past. (Technical difficulty)

That's not what he does day in day out, right? What he does, day in day out, it is managing the entire vision of the oncology. We have Suneet, who is doing the commercial; and then we have Roger Dansey, who is doing all the development as Chief Development Officer; and then we have Settleman, and he's doing the early development. Chris is supervising all of them, and he's the right person.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

Thinking about the footprint, obviously having a bi-coastal kind of presence, you talk a lot about how -- actually, Chris talked about how the Seagen business was relatively similarly sized to the legacy Pfizer business. So it was a little bit more of a merger of equals, and you keeping the management teams roughly equally balanced.

How sustainable and relevant is it for you to be active in Seattle? I'm old enough to remember Genentech, Roche, and sort of thinking about how that was across so many time zones and became a little bit of a tactical sort of struggle here. And then I also think about Pfizer deals historically, Array in Boulder, Rinat in San Francisco.

There is a longstanding tradition of large-cap pharmas acquiring smaller entities, having some initial process of capturing value, assets, talent, but then not necessarily having a footprint there. When you and I are sitting here four years from now, knock on wood, should we expect to see Seagen in Seattle and that being a success formula for you to have that footprint there?

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JUNE 10, 2024 / 3:20PM, PFE.N - Pfizer Inc at Goldman Sachs Global Healthcare Conference

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

Absolutely. We are highly committed to the Seattle side, and we will develop it even further. The examples that you gave from Boulder and Rinat in San Francisco, those -- they were rounding error in terms of size compared to Pfizer at that time, right? So it was a small group of 150 people in Boulder or in Rinat, right? And we have thousands of scientists.

As Chris told you, in R&D, the size of the Seagen organization was equal to the size of the Pfizer organization. So really, we doubled our resources, and we doubled our budget, and we doubled our pipeline.

Commercial, they had one-third of the whole, so we were double than them. So if we are two-thirds now, they are one-third in terms of commercial reps. And of course, they were not international, so we are international. But the R&D, which is what Seattle is all about, is a very sizable organization and has tremendous value for us. So we are going to develop it even further.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

A question again about pipeline prioritization, how important it is. It seems to be in oncology to be best in class, even if not first in class. And I think about some of the areas that you're quite relevant, but it's competitive, for instance, in breast cancer.

You have a pipeline of some efforts around CDK4, as opposed to just the legacy of IBRANCE there. Anything about how that realm will shape up and where Pfizer wants to be, particularly where you already have such a franchise, but it's competitive and thinking about best versus first in class for the next generation?

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

Breast cancer is the most common cancer of the female gender. And by the way, prostate cancer is the most common cancer of the male gender. And in both of them, we have current significant products, but they are the product leaders, IBRANCE and XTANDI. But in both of them, we have tremendous pipeline.

Let me focus on the breast that you just spoke about it. Clearly, we have the CDK4 that it is presenting a significant opportunity to bring the next generation. But we are having right now also a lot of ADCs that are targeting breast cancer, and we have also protein integrator, but it is also on breast cancer.

Actually, the protein integrator we're expecting data this year from Phase 3 study, which I hope will be positive. And then of course protein integrators can be used also with ADCs, and we have a lot of ideas on how you are going to combine it with ADCs, not combine as two drugs necessarily, but I'm talking also about putting as -- the drug, part of the ADC conjugate.

So breast is very important for us. We have a franchise on IBRANCE that we are going to defend commercially as we go. By the way, there is a study also on IBRANCE (technical difficulty) which is about HER2 positive with IBRANCE. Breast is a very big part of what we are going to continue doing.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

You brought up a lot of different modalities. Maybe I can ask you to touch upon what the firm's view is on thinking about some other modalities. Radiopharmaceuticals, for instance, another very highly topical, active, engaged realm from a business development standpoint. What's the Pfizer house view on radiopharmaceuticals and your interest?

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JUNE 10, 2024 / 3:20PM, PFE.N - Pfizer Inc at Goldman Sachs Global Healthcare Conference

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

We are looking at it with high interest. It's not that we have made our decision to enter into that space. We are focusing right now on three different modalities when it comes to cancer. ADCs, of course, big priority; small molecules, of course, CDK4, very big priority and tower of strength of Pfizer; and bispecifics, antibodies, right? So -- and ELREXFIO was one of them.

So those are three modalities that we are focusing on the therapeutic areas that I told you. Urothelial with prostate and bladder cancer included, breast, thoracic, and blood cancers, lymphoma, leukemias, etc. But this doesn't mean that we are not staying close to science as it evolves. And the moment we feel that we can make a difference with the new, including what you said, we will jump into it.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

Got it. Let's move on to a little bit some of the other therapeutic areas and businesses, obviously the COVID portfolio, and more broadly, vaccines. We're actually seeing an update from your competitor today and their combined COVID and flu.

Update us on where you guys are with your efforts and how we should be thinking about whether or not if we see similar data, which appears to show that the combination actually gives you a more maybe advantaged profile. Will this possibly help the sort of penetration in the US? What's your view currently on the outlook? And I know that you have some data coming as well.

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

Yes, we were very vocal that we believe that a combination of COVID with flu will probably accelerate the COVID penetration. Because flu, it is way more administered than COVID right now. Huge difference, right? So particularly in young population, the difference is dramatic, right? People are getting flu vaccine, 50%. But there are very few of them are getting COVID vaccine in the young. Overall, in the population, 50% compared to 13%.

So the convenience of being able with the same visit that you are doing in the pharmacy to get your flu vaccine, also with the same injection with zero co-pay, nothing out of your money to cover also for flu and COVID, I think, will drive several people to also opt for this choice. So as a result, we are working on that as well. And that's why also Moderna is working on that.

We have our study which is on the 18 to 64 but is on a trivalent vaccine, the flu, which is the new recommendation. I think the Moderna's data that they released was a tetravalent, so probably, they will deal with that later. But we are awaiting the data. I'm optimistic that the data will be good, and we are waiting to see them.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

Last year was a difficult year in terms of thinking about the forecasting of the COVID revenues. It ended up being the actual delivery disappointment, and there were several set points. And I would say that most of the investors that I speak with thought about the final set point that happened kind of at the end of the year into this year seemed as if the pendulum had swung quite securely to the point of, well, they can't miss this number.

When I say that, how do you feel about that? To a certain extent, it feels as if that would be very important.

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

Last year, it was a disaster the way that we forecasted we thought that COVID will go. We hit everything else. When we speak about the non-COVID business, we were on our initial guidance, but COVID was a huge difference.

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JUNE 10, 2024 / 3:20PM, PFE.N - Pfizer Inc at Goldman Sachs Global Healthcare Conference

Just a statistic to make sure that we all understand, during my tenure as CEO, we have done 21 earnings releases, right? 21 earnings releases. Five years times four plus the first one of this year. 19 of the 21, we beat EPS at Bloomberg, 19 of 21. So it's not that we are used to miss, just to make sure, because people's memory sometimes is driven by the latest and not necessarily by the facts.

Now, your question, are we going to make our numbers? Yes, I am very confident that we will make our numbers. We gave -- the COVID numbers particularly, I'm very confident because that was also the specific of your question. Keep in mind, we said it multiple times, that 90% of the vaccines that are respiratory driven are coming in the second half of the year, all right?

That includes not only COVID, it includes RSV. It includes -- so we expect 90% of the sales to be on the second part of the year. And by the way, I see that a lot of the analysts feel you have it right for the second quarter. When I say you have it right, you are forecasting that the second quarter in your estimations is small in COVID and then third and fourth is very big.

Not everybody, I think, have noticed that we repeatedly have said -- and also, that's the trend that is happening. Paxlovid, we already had a phenomenal start, right? And Paxlovid is highly, highly correlated even today with the COVID case.

So when I see the weekly sales of Paxlovid going down, I know that the surveys of COVID is down. When I see going up, it's very, very unelastic. It's very correlated, highly correlated. We will make both numbers.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

You mentioned about the RSV, actually one of the more compelling products when you think about what the street has for 2025-2026. It really becomes material. You were somewhat brutally honest in terms of what the early commercial performance has been, which has some mixed components to it. So now we're going to have potentially a third entry here, which everyone has been anticipating. So how can you win in RSV?

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

In the RSV, we were surprised positively with the market. Everybody basically became bigger than what they think. So as a result, in RSV, we did more than what we had in our budget. I'm very honest. But I also was very honest to say I was very disappointed because this is better than budget performance not because we had better performance in the market, it was because the market was bigger.

GSK took two-thirds of the market, right? And we have one-third. And that's not something that we are settling with. We should be better than GSK, not one-third,two-thirds. Now the reasons why that happened, when you have these discrepancies on market shares, one can say maybe the products are not equivalent, actually.

We don't have data to have -- comparative data between Moderna, GSK, and us to see which one is better. But based on the profile that all companies have published, we are a clearly superior product. We are the only ones that have A and B. We are having very high numbers in the first year, and we had extremely high numbers in the second year when others were fading. So we are very, very good vaccine.

The reason why we got -- and in the physicians' offices, we had the lion's share of market share. With RSV though, the biggest part of last year's sales were not on physicians' offices. It was on retailers, and GSK had earlier approval than us and had already signed a lot of contracts last year with retailers that gave (technical difficulty) this was not the choice of the people. It was -- that's what is available in the pharmacy.

We, from the beginning of this year, started renegotiating all our contracts. And by the way, the product is also running outside the US. But in the US, all our contracts -- and I don't want to speak about it. We'll see what the results will be.

But all the contracts are one year. So whatever happened last year was until basically the second quarter. Starting from the new flu season, which is basically August, September, October, November, December, and then going to next year is going to be new contracts. And I hope we'll have better position than what we had last year.

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JUNE 10, 2024 / 3:20PM, PFE.N - Pfizer Inc at Goldman Sachs Global Healthcare Conference

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

Okay. Let's touch on some other areas: metabolic disease, obesity. Very logical from a Pfizer standpoint, the House of LIPITOR going back a decade ago, a difficult journey with the pipeline assets that you've had at this point. What is your appetite for still being in there?

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

Very high, and the reasons are very simple. One, the market is real and is big. The classes that we start seeing, they have some disadvantages, but they look very good so far, right? The GLP-1, that it is the first class that is coming, and it's just scratching the surface of what we will see in obesity.

And Pfizer, as you said, has a very long tradition in metabolic diseases and in, of course, primary care commercialization. So it is an area that we are investing, and we will continue investing and will be part of it.

Now we had a first choice that unfortunately failed back in the day, I mean, a year from now -- a year ago. That was the loti one, failed because it had safety issues with liver enzyme elevations, which happens in those -- in drug discovery. So we killed it.

Things would be extremely different for us if we didn't have those liver enzymes because it would be the first one probably to come with an oral obesity, or together with Lilly at the worst, if we didn't have that setback.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

You have an asset in the clinic right now, Phase 1, but are you comfortable with what you actually have in house that's currently in the clinic? There's a little bit of a time race here versus our -- how acutely are you paying attention to what's happening around? Because there are plenty of small companies that are popping up with demonstrating some data that looks like they could go to the next level.

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

Absolutely, and we are looking all of them, and we are having also our own efforts. What we have in hand in the clinic right now, there are three different molecules, as we have said. One of them is danuglipron, that we presented data, and then we said that we are going to first wait to see if we can convert that to once a day. And we said mid of the year, so mid of the year is June, July. That's basically the time frame that we should be having a date on that.

So we are waiting to see; hopefully, we'll come on time. Then we have two other ones that we haven't disclosed the mechanism, but they are in the clinic right now and we have a lot in the pipeline. Also, I want to say that the injectables are the ones that are having most imminent competition, right, from everyone who has something presented so far. But coming by year '26, '27, it is injectable.

Orals, there's only Lilly right now, and then us, and then AstraZeneca. But I think we have at least two years difference, each one of us. So us being in the middle, AstraZeneca being two years later than us if you do danu, and then Lilly being two years earlier than danu if they are successful. All of that is if.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

And then help me reconcile. So Aamir's goal of $25 billion in revenues by 2030, I think, based upon everything that was done, whether it's Seagen, you add 10, 10 plus; Arena; Global Blood; everything put together still gets you to about $20 billion to $21 billion.

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JUNE 10, 2024 / 3:20PM, PFE.N - Pfizer Inc at Goldman Sachs Global Healthcare Conference

The priority is to pay down, so your capacity to do business development -- and this is intentionally linked over to obesity metabolic disease just because it is such a hot area and we also talked about radiopharmaceuticals. Should we expect you to do more tuck-in acquisitions, or is this a little bit of a breathing period because of the priorities the way you rank them for capital allocation?

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

It is a breathing period not because we need to pay debt and we don't have the capacity to do business development. We can do both, right? It's not the problem. What it is -- the strategy is that we have just invested $70 billion plus in the last 18 months in acquiring things, very important investment for the company.

We need to catch our breath and make sure that we execute well on those that we have right now. So that's the priority, all four of them. Now I'm very optimistic in all. And probably, that's good. We can even exceed the projections that we have made without changing the numbers that I have committed.

But I think Seagen surprised us very positively with data and the performance and integration, and I think Nurtec will surprise us very positively going forward. So all of that, I think, they look good.

But that's the reason why I don't foresee ourselves going and buying something sizeable now because I don't want to disrupt our commercial operations, our research operations, our -- as they are doing manufacturing operations, as they are doing the work that they are doing to execute.

Smaller things that -- they are coming, just the intellectual property with it like an obesity molecule or here and there -- yes, oncology's the same. We are looking at them and will happen probably this year as well, but these are smaller things. And for the '25, let's say that -- it's by year 2030. There are a lot of years.

Chris Shibutani - The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. - Analyst

Yes, you've got some time in there. I mean, it was pretty consistent with that. In the last five minutes, I want to take advantage of the fact that you are a CEO of one of the prominent companies here and to talk about a bigger-picture issue, and that would be the IRA process as it's unfolding, two topics that investors seem to care about.

How's it going? I know you and your partner, Bristol, are involved with Eliquis, and to the extent that you can give a side eye or give us an eye roll or something, I think, when we were talking to our DC policy consultants. It's been kind of an interesting first year, but no one's really smiling.

And then secondly, Medicare Part D redesigned 2025 implications. So maybe let's start on the second question. How should we think about what the House of Pfizer view is about the redesigned impact on the revenue forecasting, because some companies have sort of been optimistic and then pessimistic.

Albert Bourla - Pfizer Inc - Chairman of the Board & CEO

I think it's not about the revenue forecasting the next few years that I worry, because there are drivers that are pushing it down and drivers that are pushing it up. So I don't think that's the problem. I think the main problem of the redesign of Part D, it is that they are having this nonsense of the penalty of the pill. But it's going to create these advantages for oral molecules compared to large molecules in the long term.

And by the way, disadvantage in both because they are putting that cap. But the things are more intense in the small molecules. So that will force a lot of us to make strategic moves, not based on where the science is taking us but based on where IRA is taking us.

I mean, one of the reasons why I was hesitating, zero, to write a $43 billion check for Seagen is not only that they were the technology I wanted and the company I wanted, but also, they are large molecules. So basically, they don't have these problems of the small that IBRANCE could face.

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